General Textures Discussion

DerakOren

New member
Hi all.

Cyberion
Yes i want work on this project and i have time for working.
What about this:

symbol5shht4.jpg

1. Where i can take off my image(server)?
2. ImageShack is't  good server?
3. Whats me add  to Restricted image?(Jupix whats crude in Restricted, write and i change?)
4. I need text for add to Restricted?

Hi it's new image(Number):
nr1bd4.jpg


If good image then i do other number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0
If not good pleasy write what change and i change that!


P.S. Thanks & and i have all this image in psd with resulation 900x900.
 
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Abyssary

Guest
Looks very good, i like it. Especially the finer details.

You already added shades as if the light was coming from the top right corner.

Can you make evenly lit textures and a bump map?
That way the shades could depend on the light in the actual map and it would look more three-dimensional ingame.
 

DerakOren

New member
Hi all and Happy New Year 2009 !!!

I added texture in door:
door3eh6.jpg


But i think looks don't reality!
Write what your thinking about this.
 
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Abyssary

Guest
Hi, sorry for being late.

For some of the textures we will need bump maps, wikipedia gives a short explanation (also in russian  :D )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_map


I took your door to make a small bump-map example:


The brightness represents how much the surface will stand out when rendered in the game.
The light panels are the deepest, so i made them black, the handle in the middle is the highest, so it is white.

i can give you more examples of the objects i already made later.
 

kristus

New member
Sorry for butting in here, but I think you need to know this.
Abyssary link said:
For some of the textures we will need bump maps, wikipedia gives a short explanation (also in russian  :D )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_map

That's not what Bumpmaps are efficient for. Bumpmaps are only really good for adding small detail textures like the texture of a fabric.

What you want is Normalmaps. Which typically are generated from hi poly models on to a flat surface (for when you make general textures) or on to a lower poly model (which I suggest you do in this case with the door).
You can also create normalmaps using a program called Crazybump. It's decent enough but I personally wouldn't use it for anything other than organic stuff like tree trunk textures and grass, gravel etc.
You can read a bit about that here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_map

Here's a quick introduction to normalmaps that I wrote once on another forum for a friend:
http://www.doglike.org/?page_id=82
 
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Abyssary

Guest
Yeah, i know normal maps;
The problem is that Lightwave, which we use, has no built in support for normalmaps (but i think there are several plugins).
So i usually use heightmaps (mostly for things like scratches, distortions, etc.).
For other things they usually don't look that good.

Although i wanted to use them for textures like the room numbers DerakOren made, because we don't have models from which we can create normalmaps.
 

kristus

New member
Any game based on IdTech4 (Doom3, QuakeIV, Prey, ETQW) can generate them, and is natively supporting LWO files.
Though I find that highly suspect that a high profile program like Lightwave can't generate it's own Normalmaps.
All the 3d programs I use (Modo, Mudbox and 3d Studio Max) can generate them.
 
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Abyssary

Guest
Well, that's an issue the LW-community is discussing for years.

I think it's partly because LW is more often used for movies and TV series and not for
modeling objects for computer games.
It also takes different approaches to UV-mapping and object hierarchies which are sometimes important for game models but not necessarily for animations.

If i'm not mistaken the new 9.x version has better support for normal maps and
many additional custom shaders. Maybe i will give it a try while i can still get the cheaper education version  :D
 

kristus

New member
Hm, that's interesting. I've never actually used Lightwave myself. But from what I've heard it's strong suit has always been the modeling, not the animation. Actually I've heard the opposite about the animation tools for Lightwave. People I've come in contact with have generally seemed to opt for animation in Maya, or in some cases 3d Studio.

Lightwave has had something of an idol status in the game modeling community in the past. But I'd say it's mostly been overshadowed by Modo now.

Sorry, appears I've derailed the thread.
 

Cyberion

Administrator
No worries about derailing ;) It's always good to talk to someone who is good enough in understanding modeling and its principles.

Indeed normal maps would do a great deal to us concerning the detailes. However none of us is so proficient with all aspects of modeling.

Lightwave is very good programm for modeling, but it's not that awesome for game modeling. Or maybe we are not that good to create ultimately beatiful models. We learn everything ourselves... modeling is mostly like a hobby ;)
 

kristus

New member
Cool. Yes, always fun to talk about aspects of the craft. :)

Interesting what you say about lightwave. I know some high profile studios that used it specifically for game modeling. Though like I also said. Modo (which happen to support the lwo format since it's made by people who worked on lightwave in the past) I believe is a rising star in that field. It's not too expensive either. :)

Well hobby or not. I think your low poly models are generally quite good. And I'm looking forward to see how this mod comes along. I would love to help but I'm already preoccupied with my own team's mod. :/
But the truth is that you come across so many mods that you'd love to help out on, that I think it's more or less doomed to always be the case. :p

If you want I can show you to some tutorials on normalmap baking, though I don't know of any for Lightwave. But the basic principle is always the same.
 
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Abyssary

Guest
I googled a bit and found some normalmap plugins for LW.
I tried them on some simple objects and everything seems to work fine.
Later on, i'll see if i can improve some of my already finished models for the mod.


I think the many available plugins are a reason why LW is used that much even if there are some features missing.
Also the price is really low. Maya or 3DSMax can cost a few 1000 ?, while LW starts at ca. 800 ?
(The education version is only around 250 ? i think)
 

kristus

New member
3d max is at about 5000?. Which is pretty insane if you ask me.
Modo is at about 670?
Student version I think is about 100? though
 

kristus

New member
Good news everyone. I ran into a wall yesterday where I couldn't load the mudbox model I made in modo due to sheer size of the thing. So I asked my friend today about options and he directed me towards this lovely program:

It's a very powerful tool for these very things. What's even better is that it's completely free of charge. :)
http://www.xnormal.net
 

Cyberion

Administrator
ohhh very good website. I guess I'll add this link to the FAQ section if you don't mind. - http://cyberionsystems.com/echosector/index.php?topic=438 (at the bottom of the page)
 

kristus

New member
Nope. Don't mind at all. :)

I've been using the program now and it's quite excellent.

Worth to mention is that this program also appears to be able to be able to create normalmaps from heightmaps (like crazybump do) Of course. That's best suited for organics, something you'll have little use of with what you're doing here.

Something worth mentioning about Normalmaps btw. There's different kinds of normalmaps. The most common are those rendered on a tangent though (which is what is used in games). But even there there's different ways to interpret them etc. For instance, Doom3's normalmaps are different from those made with this program and Modo. But the same as are made with 3d studio for instance.

Doom3 can also render a special kind of normalmap where it's aimed at unsmooth tangents (sharp edges on the low poly mesh) and those are essentially not very useful in other programs (not from what I've seen anyway).

The difference between the regular maps though is that if you create a normalmap in this program and intend to use it with Doom3 (Don't know if HL2 use the same as Doom3 or as Modo, you'll notice that though since it's quite obvious when you're seeing it in game) you have to go into the green RGB channel and invert it. Then it'll be all dandy.
 

Jupix

New member
For the record, the Source engine which we are using does not support normal mapping. For early versions of Regret I had hacked some support in, but the result was unsatisfactory, so we're limited to bumpmapping.
 

kristus

New member
Oh?
Hm, well I suppose that settles that then. :p

EDIT: I looked it up and from this http://www2.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutorial10_Half-Life2_Shading.pdf
it tells me that it certainly do have normalmaps.
Furthermore, this shot shows normalmap usage: http://www.hlfallout.net/images/content/enemies/full/stalker_full.jpg

EDIT2: An acquaintance over at D3W told me that at the release of Half Life 2, it supported Normalmaps. But they were only affected by the world light, and not by any lights in the maps. Same as with it's shadows that are all casting in the same parallel direction.
 
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